Pro-Wrestling Bruno Sammartino Page
Last updated 4 December 1999
Ryder: Thanks so much for joining us Bruno. I guess the
best place to start the interview is at the beginning. How
did you get into the business?
Bruno: Well, Bob, I always had a passion for wrestling
since I came from the old country. When I came here I went
for 6 months to language school, then went straight to high
school and they had no wrestling program at my high school.
But I was fortunate because one of my teachers was
friendly with a fellow by the name of Rex Perry who was the
wrestling coach at the University of Pittsburgh, and he
told him of my passion for wrestling. He made arrangements
for me to go right from high school, I used to walk to the
Pitt training center, I would go there after school and
would work out with the team. I did that throughout high
school, and besides that we also had a ring during off
season, so like Monday, Tuesday, and Friday I would lift
weights, and the other days I'd work on wrestling. I kept
up a 6 day schedule that way. I got pretty good with the
weights and started competing in both Olympic style and
Power lifting as well. I was a big boy size wise, and kept
getting bigger and bigger.
Ryder: This was in the mid-50's?
Bruno: Well, I came over here in 1951...so this would have
been shortly after that.
Ryder: You had your first match when?
Bruno: The first match came in 1959. I believe it was
September of 59.
Ryder: How did you break in?
Bruno: What happened is I had been in a weightlifting meet
in Oklahoma City...the North American PowerLifting
Championship, and I won. I don't know if you ever heard of
a fellow by the name of Bob Prince...but he was the voice
of the Pittsburgh Pirates, and he had his own television
show. I had appeared on his show a few times giving
demonstrations in weight lifting and one time giving an
amateur wrestling demonstration. When I won this
competition in Oklahoma, I was a big boy by now...about 265
lbs or so, he invited me to come on his show. When I came
on the show he asked if I was still working out at
wrestling and I told him that was what I really wanted to
do. While this was going on a fellow by the name of Rudy
Miller, who represented Capitol Wrestling...that was before
they became the WWWF, here in Pittsburgh they had live TV
every Saturday...studio wrestling....well he happened to be
watching and heard weight lifter who wants to be wrestler,
so he started inquiring around. Rudy asked around and he
contacted me to see if I was interested. The following
week I went to meet him. He got me a plane ticket to go to
Washington DC, where I met Vince McMahon Sr and Toots
Monde. Over there they looked me over and took me to
Capitol Arena where they used to do the TV out of in
Washington. They put me in with a couple of guys to see
what I had. They worked me out pretty good, and I guess I
looked ok. I stayed there a couple of months training.
Ryder: At that time Vince McMahon was the owner of Capitol?
Bruno: He and Toots Monde. They were partners.
Ryder: And Rudy?
Bruno: Rudy Miller was affiliated. He wasn't an owner, he
was an agent or something because he ran shows in some
areas.
Ryder: So, your first match was in 1959 for Capitol
Sports. Did you work for them for a few years?
Bruno: No, I worked for them from late 1959 until the
middle of 1961. Then I went to Canada and worked for Jack
Tunney.
Ryder: We've heard the story about how the WWWF was
formed, about the controversy involving the NWA title and
McMahon spliting from them....what exactly happened?
Bruno: Rogers was the NWA champion, and he wrestled Thesz
in Toronto at Maple Leaf Garden in a title match. If I
remember what happened, there should have been no title
change if there was a disqualification. I believe it was 2
out of 3 falls. There were 2 pinfalls, but one fall was a
disqualification. Thesz was crowned new champion, and
McMahon...well I guess Rogers was working alot for him in
those days...McMahon protested and said Rogers should
remain champion. It was a big controversy, I don't
remember all of the details, but it was at that time that
the World Wide Wrestling Federation was formed. Vince
McMahon continued to recognize Rogers, and the NWA
recognized Thesz.
Ryder: Before that you had been involved in a
controversial decision involving Rogers and the NWA title,
hadn't you?
Bruno: I beat him in Toronto and he said he tried to
leapfrog me as I was coming off the ropes for a tackle. He
claims that I rammed him in the groin. It knocked him out
and I covered him and the referee counted 1 2 3. The
referee raised my hand as the new champion, but then they
claimed that I won it with a foul. I said if that is the
way it was going to be looked upon, that I won it on a
foul, that I didn't want it. So, I refused the title, and
Rogers remained champion.
Ryder: Rogers then went on to become the WWWF Champion.
You had your famous match with him in 1963?
Bruno: May 17, 1963.
Ryder: Tell me how that match came about.
Bruno: I had a dispute with McMahon. They had me
suspended all over the country. I wanted to leave. I
wasn't happy with the way my career was going in New York.
I was strictly preliminary and I felt I was going nowhere.
I wanted to leave. In those days it wasn't when you wanted
to leave...it was when they wanted you to leave. So, kind
of a dirty game was pulled. When I told them I was
finishing up, I gave like a 3 week notice or to finish up
the bookings before the new bookings came about. I was
booked in Chicago as far as I knew, so I went to Chicago
and that would be my last date with them. From there I
went to Roy Shires who was just getting started in San
Francisco. So, I worked Chicago and went to San Francisco
and wrestled for about a week when all of a sudden someone
from the State Athletic Commission came up and told me 'you
aren't wrestling here anymore.' I asked why, and he said
"because you are suspended". They said they had
notification from New York that I was suspended. They
wouldn't tell me why. Then I went to Indianapolis, and the
same thing happened. I figured everywhere I went it would
happen, so I went back home to Pittsburgh and because I had
a wife and a little baby, I went back to construction.
Ryder: And when was this all happening.
Bruno: In late '60 and '61. Anyway Toots Monde contacted
me and told me he wanted me to wrestle for him in
Pittsburgh. So I wrestled locally around Pittsburgh, and I
wasn't satisfied.
Bruno: So anyway, eventually Toots set up a meeting with
Vince McMahon. Then I found out how I had gotten
suspended. What had happened was I had been double booked.
I knew I was wrestling in Chicago, but what I didn't know
was they had booked me in Baltimore too. I knew nothing
about that. Baltimore inquired of my whereabouts and they
had been told I just didn't show up. They should have
notified me and they would have had a hearing so I could
give an explanation. If I had such a hearing I could have
told them I wrestled in Chicago. That's the way it was in
those days.
Ryder: And the suspension was honored all over the country.
Bruno: I guess so. So, Vince goes to Baltimore with me,
and he told me whatever you do keep your mouth shut and he
would handle the commission. He told me not to say
anything at all. I said OK...and I listened to those
people talk like I was a criminal. One commissioner said
if it was up to him he would throw me in jail and throw
away the key. I had to listen to all this nonsense. The
reason they wanted me to keep quiet is because if I had
talked, somebody else would have gotten in trouble. So I
kept my mouth shut and they fined me $500. Vince went into
a private meeting with them and everything got handled. So
now, I'm supposed to go back and work for McMahon and
everything would be ok. But everything was just as it had
been before...but now I was a little wiser. I got some
legal advice and I sent a registered letter to every
athletic commission in the country telling them what my
last date would be and telling them I wouldn't be
responsible for any dates booked for me after that date.
When McMahon got a whiff of it he didn't like it, but I
told him there was no future for me there. Meanwhile, in
Toronto wrestling was really down. Yukon Eric told me I
might do well up there because there was alot of Italians
there. I told him I didn't know...but he put in a word for
me. I was afraid Vince would be badmouthing me, but
evidently he took me anyway. Frank Tunney didn't say
anything, he just took me. Everything was going ok, and I
started making a bit of a hit with the Italians. I was
very strong then. I had done a 500lb bench press and a
720lb squat so they called me the Italian Samson. I
started looking good and the crowds started coming in.
Frank Tunney told me he had been told he would have
problems with me, but he was very pleased and wanted me to
know Toronto was my home. I was there for the next year
and a half. Meanwhile New York was doing very poorly.
McMahon heard we were doing good in Toronto, so he
contacted me and asked me to come back. He told me he knew
we had had differences and he said he wanted to bury the
hatchet. He said he thought I'd do better in New York
because of all the Italians. I told him I would come back
under one condition...if I could wrestle Rogers for the
title. He told me he didn't think Rogers would go for
that...Rogers and I didn't get along. Vince told me he'd
give me a guarantee if I'd come back, but I told him I was
doing fine in Toronto and the only way I'd come back is if
I got Rogers for the title. Anyway, finally we worked it
out, and on May 17, 1963 in 47 or 48 seconds I became the
new champion.
Ryder: And you immediately started selling out the Garden.
Bruno: I was very fortunate. It was almost overnight.
The people started coming and we started selling out.
Ryder: You sold out all up and down the East Coast.
Bruno: The entire Eastern region.
Ryder: You had some pretty famous matches with Gorilla
Monsoon in those days.
Bruno: A lot of big guys...Killer Kowalski, Big Bill
Miller, Don Leo Johnathon, Bill Watts...we did great
business with Watts, Toru Tanaka, Waldo Von Erich...we did
good business with a lot of people. They were all great.
Bobby Duncum was pretty much unknown, and he did great for
us.
Ryder: You held the belt for how long?
Bruno: The first time for 8 years, the second time for 4.
Ryder: What was it like leaving the ring the night Koloff
beat you?
Bruno: That was, man..it's so hard to describe. When I
lost it was the strangest thing I ever experienced in my
life. I thought something had happened to my ears. It was
eerie. I got up and started walking out. It was totally
silent. Then people started sobbing and on the way to the
dressing room they were telling me they still loved me. I
was really surprised. I hadn't expected that kind of
reaction, and when I got to the dressing room, I was really
depressed. I thought I had let those people down, and I
felt very very sad because I felt the sadness that I saw.
I didn't know it would be like that...I couldn't believe it.
Ryder: People had lost championships before, but never
with that kind of reaction.
Bruno: It was unbelieveable. You had to be there to see
it. It was eerie. Never in a million years did I think
that would happen. If a guy beat me I thought they'd boo
him, or maybe cheer me when I walked out. But these people
were just devastated. It was really really strange. You
could hear a pin drop. People were actually sobbing. I
felt very bad.
Ryder: Right after that the titles switched from Koloff to
Morales and then you left the territory for awhile.
Bruno: During the time between the titles I really began
to love the business again. Let me explain. During those
8 years that I held the title I was on a ridiculous
schedule. I worked every single day including 2 Sundays a
month. I had told Jack Tunney I would work for him, and he
ran every other Sunday...he had been good to me so I told
him I would work for him. I felt I owed it to him. That
only gave me 2 Sundays off a month. That had been hard on
my wife and son. It was really one heck of a schedule, and
the aches and pains were really building up. When I lost
the title and rested up it really rejuvenated my
enthusiasm. What I did was Sam Muchnik would call and I'd
go to St Louis and work a couple of shows. Then I'd go to
Indianapolis and work a couple of shows there. I'd take
off when I wanted to. I would go to Los Angeles. I'd go
to Japan then come back and take time off. It was great.
I was in demand all over the world and could work at my own
pace. Promoters were offering me good money, and at the
same time I was spending time with my family. Believe me I
had no desire to get that title back.
Ryder: What brought you back in?
Bruno: Well, McMahon came to me and said he needed me. He
called a number of times and said "Bruno you have to come
back. Things are slipping away. All I ask is one year."
He told me if I came back he would just use me in the big
shows...so I went back. One year turned to 2 and that
finally turned to 4, then I broke my darn neck.
Ryder: You mention the broken neck. What went through
your mind?
Bruno: They tell you that it was the Lariat that broke it,
but it was a bad slam. I came off the ropes and he went to
slam me and dropped me right on my head. The way he picked
me up I had no control, he just threw me right down on my
head. At first it felt like a bolt of lightening went
through me. Then I couldn't feel part of my body. Things
went to a blank and things got confusing. The next thing I
knew I was in an ambulance and then a hospitol. I remember
hearing the doctors saying I had no feeling on my left
side, and I wondered what that meant. After some time they
ran tests and showed the 6th and 7th cervical vertebrae
were the ones that broke, and the reason I couldn't feel
anything on my left side was because of pressure being put
on my spinal cord. The vertebrae were pressing against the
cord. When they removed the pressure, I slowly started
feeling things again.
Ryder: You were out for about 6-8 months?
Bruno: That's about right. They had told me I was done,
but I came back.
Ryder: And worked another 4 o 5 years.
Bruno: I worked until 81.
Ryder: You had some great matches with Ray Stevens. Was
that in the first title reign?
Bruno: We wrestled during both reigns, but I think you are
probably talking about the matches in 1967.
Ryder: What was the story there. You actually lost to him?
Bruno: We were both outside the ring. I was climbing back
in and he grabbed my tights and pulled me out, and he flew
in the ring and got the win by countout.
Ryder: He was something special on the West Coast.
Bruno: Ray Stevens was a great great talent. I don't say
this just because Ray has passed on. I truly thought that
Ray Stevens was just super super great. He was tremendous
in the ring. I will tell you this...everybody has their
opinions about who is great and what have you. I don't see
anybody around that I have seen that was better than Ray
Stevens.
Ryder: When you lost the second title did you stick around
with McMahon?
Bruno: The only times I would come in is if they needed
help in a town. I was always lucky and could bring in the
crowds. So when things were down someplace I would come in.
Ryder: Tell me about the series with Larry Zbysko.
Bruno: Boy, you want to talk about a series that was
something special. They do Wrestlemania's and advertise
all over the country and bring in celebrities. When I
wrestled Larry in Shea Stadium we just advertised in one
market, and we drew about 45,000 people. But, what is
extraordinary about that was what we were up against. The
same night the Pittsburgh Steelers were playing an
exhibition against the New York Giants, and the Yankees
were playing Baltimore in Yankee Stadium. We did a huge
crowd against that competition. We sold out everywhere we
went. We turned away crowds everywhere. This was in 1980,
I was an old guy by that time.
Ryder: Was that one of your most successful series as far
as drawing?
Bruno: Well don't take this the wrong way...but a sell out
is a sell out. We sold out the Garden and all those other
Arenas almost every time we went there. It was a very hot
series of matches, but we were used to selling out.
Ryder: Your last match in 1981, that was with George
Steele?
Bruno: Well, they wanted me to open the Meadowlands, and I
said OK. Then there were delays after delays, but I hung
on. That was October 4. The next morning, I flew to Japan
for a final appearance there. I worked a 10 day tour of
Japan, and came home and was finished.
Ryder: What was the last match in Japan?
Bruno: It was me and Baba against Race and I can't
remember who the Japanese guy was. But that was the last
match.
Ryder: You did work one of the Wrestlemania matches,
didn't you?
Bruno: Oh, when I came back as a commentator in 1984, I
wrestled a number of times in the Boston area. In 1985
McMahon asked me if I'd put on the tights and I refused.
Then they told my kid that if the old man would come back
it would look good for him. I told him if they want to
give you the big 'push' as they called it, they don't need
me to do it. My kid thought come on dad, you're in good
shape. I didn't want him to think in the future that I did
anything to hold him back, so I did it. I had no desire
whatsoever, despised the thought of coming back, but you do
what you have to do. I put on the tights and we sold out
Boston, Philadelphia, the Garden. They kept after me and I
told them my career is over...I wanted no part of it
anymore. I told my kid, you see what happens we sold out
all those places and it's over...where is the push.
Please don't feel that I have to keep putting on the
tights, because I can't do that.
Ryder: You left in 1981, then Vince Jr took over and
turned the company into Titan Sports in '82 or '83. Were
you out of the picture then?
Bruno: I was completely out and retired then. I got a
call from Vince Jr in 1984 and what I got out of the
conversation was that he wanted to keep his dads tradition
and because I had been such a part of the company...so I
thought color commentating wouldn't be so bad. But when I
came back I started seeing all the drastic changes, and hey
to each his own, but I didn't like it.
Ryder: What kind of changes specifically?
Bruno: Throughout my career there were always things I
didn't like, certain gimmicks. You know my career, Bob, I
just had a pair of tights and a pair of boots. I never had
any fancy robes or anything. I felt those things didn't
mean anything and I felt all it did was bring criticism to
the game, so I was very anti those things. They did exist
in my day...but when I came back as a commentator, the
whole thing to me seemed very bizarre. I also had a very
big problem when I saw how widespread drugs were. I don't
like that and I didn't like what I was seeing.
Ryder: You commentated for how long?
Bruno: A couple of years. From February of 84 until I
believe 87.
Ryder: What happened to finally put the nail in the coffin?
Bruno: I was very unhappy the entire time. I had told
them I wanted out, but we had a contract. I thought ok,
I'll wait it out. I was extremely unhappy. I didn't like
anything I saw to be quite candid. Not one single thing.
Finally I just told them I had other interests, and I left.
That was it, so I left. Things just appalled me. The drug
situation was serious and I felt something should be done.
Ryder: How bad were the drugs?
Bruno: It was just horrible. Wrestling had been good for
me, and I tried to be as good for it too. I felt instead
of getting better it was going to be scandalous. I felt it
would end up hurting a lot of people, young people just
coming into the business were going to feel like they had
to get on that junk because the mentality was that without
it you couldn't make it.
Ryder: You're talking specifically about steroids now.
Bruno: Well it was steroids yeah, but unfortunately there
were other things going around. But, Steroids yeah, as
I've stated before just about everybody was on it. I said
just about 95% of them were on it...and Billy Graham said
try 99%. And they were gearing everything towards the
kids. Cartoon characters...they wanted the kids because
they wanted mom and dad to buy this and that. And yet,
they were gearing towards the kids and these guys were all
a bunch of drug freaks. I thought that was just horrible.
Their biggest heroes were the worst offenders.
Ryder: After leaving, what was your next involvement in
wrestling?
Bruno: Jim Herd was with WCW and he called me one time to
be a special guest referee in Philadelphia for a PPV. Then
later, Bill Watts called me and I came in for him when he
was there.
Ryder: Aside from the drugs...the wrestling today doesn't
even resemble what it was in your day.
Bruno: I stopped watching it, in about 1988. It bothered
me quite a bit, and I thought why agrravate yourself. I
don't like the kind of wrestling that takes place. I see
alot of acrobatics and alot of brawling, but not much
wrestling. Besides that, nobody has names anymore. Like
Macho Man, Million Dollar Man. Nobody has a name anymore.
To me it's not wrestling. It just changed too drastically
for me.
Ryder: What about Vince Jr. A lot of people think he
dodged a bullet with the steroid trial.
Bruno: Well in that trial, they showed that large
shipments of the stuff went to the office and he claims it
was for his own personal use. On the other hand, they all
said they got their steroids from other people. What they
were trying to get him on, I believe, was distribution not
the question that the guys were using, or he was
using...but on distribution. So that's how he dodged a
bullet. He said it was for his own personal use and all
the other guys said they didn't get it from him.
Ryder: How long after you left was it before David left?
Bruno: Maybe a month, if that long. He got in trouble and
they fired him. There was always a question if this might
have been a setup....I can't prove it. Some fan really got
on David's case...calling him all kinds of rotten things,
and I think he spit on him...and David decked the guy. You
can't do that to a fan no matter what. The WWF
immediately the next day, and this appalled me, issued a
statement saying "The WWF does not condone such behavior
and David Sammartino the son of Bruno Sammartino has been
terminated." Of course, maybe someone should be
terminated...the problem was, McMahon had maybe a dozen
guys who had done the same or worse. Some were being sued,
yet my kid makes the newspapers as the "son of Bruno
Sammartino". I don't condone hitting the fan. Fire
him...that's fine. But to issue a release like that while
you still have other people on your payroll who did the
same thing isn't fair.
Ryder: What is David doing now?
Bruno: He's running a gym in Atlanta. He always liked
that kind of thing.
Ryder: When we spoke earlier today, you mentioned you
wanted to clear up something that Mark Madden wrote in the
upcoming WCW Magazine. In the article, Madden lists his
top 10 World Champions and says that Lou Thesz in his 60's
had challenged you while you were in your 30's to a winner
take all match. Madden says you refused the match and
"chumped out". What are your comments on this?
Bruno: Let me clarify by saying it's a ridiculous and
pathetic lie. It's something that absolutely didn't
happen. If something like that had actually happened, I
can assure you it would have been done through the media,
through the magazines, whatever. I'd like to ask anybody
at that time if they had any recollection of that
happening. There was never such a challenge and never did
I refuse such a challenge. Obviously, this guy...who I
consider a very irresponsible journalist...because first of
all he lives here in Pittsburgh...let's assume Thesz told
him that, which I don't believe...let's assume Thesz might
have made such a claim. A responsible journalist would
have contacted me for my side of the story. But this is a
malicious guy, for whatever reason, I don't know what it
is. I never met the guy...I have no idea what he even
looks like, he's just been described to me by other people.
Maybe when he gets up in the morning sometimes he looks in the mirror and that puts him in a bad mood and he decides to attack someone...and I'm a good target because for whatever reason he doesn't like me. So, he published something that is such a lie...I think if you are a journalist is that what you do is try to get your facts from both parties before saying something like that. Like I say, I don't believe Thesz said that. If Thesz said that, I'd like to say publically that Thesz is a damn lier.
That never happened and no challenge was made. Unless he challenged me by secret and didn't tell me. I just know I wasn't challenged and didn't refuse a challenge. I've always respected Thesz and I don't believe he ever made a claim that he made such a challenge. I just hope that when people read that they consider it comes from a very irresponsible human being....whatever his problems are in his life, I don't know why he wants to attack people as he has done in the past. Some people just do irresponsible things.
Ryder: We also talked earlier about the history of the
sport and the fact that alot of the young fans don't know
about the 'old days'. Does it bother you, for instance,
that the WWF has a Hall of Fame and their greatest champion
is not in it?
Bruno: Does it bother me? I'm greatful that they kept my
name out of it, I mean that sincerely. If it was the old
WWWF, of course I would have appreciated that. I don't
even want to be associated with the present WWF. They are
doing me a favor by keeping me out. That should tell
anybody who knows the history of wrestling, however, that
it's a Sham Hall of Fame. I hope it doesn't come out as
boasting, but if it was legitimate I would be the first guy
inducted because I held the belt longer than anybody else,
for 12 years, nobody ever sold out the arenas as often as I
did. How does one qualify for this Hall of Fame? Who is
qualified?
Ryder: Let's talk about a couple of a couple of
wrestlers that remain from your last years of active
wrestling. What is your opinion of Ric
Flair?
Bruno: Ric Flair has been around a long time.
Sometimes I'm bothered by the fact that he is involved in
what is going on today, but he's always a hard worker and
always gives his all. I don't know much about him now, I
haven't seen him wrestle in a long time. Yesteryear, when
I used to see him...he could go an hour. A lot of people
today I dont' know what they would do if they had to go an
hour. He's from the old school.
Ryder: How about Terry Funk?
Bruno: I always thought Terry was very very good. The bad
thing most of us are guilty of is we stick around too long.
The mistake alot of us make is we should know when to
quit. Is he out now?
Ryder: He retired earlier this year.
Bruno: It was a wise thing to do. Even myself, I stayed
until 1981. I was talked into staying longer for this
reason or that reason. I should have retired earlier. I
had a lot of injuries, and noway could I do what I could do
before. When you can't do the best you can do, it's time
to get out.
Ryder: What are your memories about Andre the Giant?
Bruno: Andre was unique. He was enormous. Vince Sr had
the right idea. When he booked Andre he had a decent
relationship with other promoters and could keep Andre on
the move. Andre wasn't a wrestler you could keep in the
same territory month after month. You just couldn't do
that. He was an attraction you could bring in
periodically. Like Haystacks Calhoun. You couldn't bring
him in longterm. He was a special attraction. You know
what made me last so long? I believe this very strongly.
I was able to learn very young from people like Argentino
Rocco and Eduardo Carpentier, both very good wrestlers.
But, what I noticed is they did the same moves a lot. I
thought if I ever headlined I thought that would get old
after awhile. I would study an opponent, for instance you
wrestle Ray Stevens in his style or Brusier Brody in his.
With Ray Stevens you'd do high spots, and with Brody you
would brawl. I was a big guy so I could brawl with him.
That way I could be at Madison Square Garden every month
without being repetitious. If I wrestled Hans Mortier it
would be wrestling. If it was Ken Patera it would be power
moves. So, I did that and it kept me different and fresh
each time. Unfortunately, the experts that write
newsletters just think they know the game. I heard one of
the newsletter guys said I was a brawler. He didn't know
what he was talking about, unless he was talking about my
matches with Kowalski. If you look at my Ray Stevens
matches, I worked a different style completely. For
example I wrestled Pedro Morales for an hour and 17 minutes
and we didn't do any brawling. Some of the other people
that some of the newsletter people call the greatest, and I
won't mention any names, but those people always do the
same moves always the same spots. They get stale. I tried
to be fresh every time I worked with someone different.
I'd adapt to their style and that made it possible to have
such a long run.
Ryder: Let's talk about Hulk Hogan.
Bruno: Hogan was in the WWF about 7 years. Did you know
he only wrestled in the Garden 23-25 times. McMahon
understood his limitations. Hogan is an extremely limited
guy and couldn't have carried the Garden every month. He
was not the type of guy that could come back again and
again. He's a very limited guy.
Ryder: You came back last Friday night as a special guest
for the Ilio Dipaulo Memorial show in Buffalo. What was it
like to hear that ovation from the crowd?
Bruno: I'll be honest with you. I had goosebumps because
I didn't expect it. I was extremely fortunate all my years
in the business the way I was treated. I was the luckiest
guy in the world...but time goes and new people come and
go. It's been a lot of years. I thought they would
announce my name, I'd wave and get a nice hand. When they
did what they did, it just blew me away. It's a wonderful
feeling, a great feeling. It shocked me, I didn't expect
it.
Ryder: Now you will be the guest referee for a series of
matches between Flair and Savage.
Bruno: I'm thrilled. We are going to places I appeared
from the time they opened. I opened Hartford, the
Spectrum, the Capitol Arena. I'm working 4 shows with
them. I guess Buffalo impressed them.
Ryder: You were interviewed last year by the New York Post
when they did a story about wrestling deaths. You were
quoted as saying "It's time to clean up the business or
abolish it because it's nothing like it used to be. Right
now it's filled with human junk".
Bruno: What bothered me was the number of deaths. If it
was football players, it would be headlines all over the
country...on radio and tv. The fact that guys were dieing
left and right and nobody was doing anything about it. It
was swept under the rug. The promoters that condone it
were happy because it meant they could keep on doint it. I
would have loved to see something so strong they would have
wiped out wrestling...not to wipe out wrestling, because I
love wrestling, but to wipe out what had become of
wrestling. I thought that maybe, just maybe, some people
would have learned a valuable lesson of what happened from
1983 on. Maybe some people who truly love the business
would come back and get back to basics. In time they could
win the confidence of the public and start doing business
the old way.
Ryder: Do you blame Vince McMahon for the wrestling deaths?
Bruno: I can't blame him for all those deaths because they
weren't all working for him. I blame the deaths on what
the business had become. Certainly the mentality was you
had to be on certain drugs to make it. The mentality
existed and those on top who condoned that kind of
mentality should assume certain blame for it.
Ryder: What can be done to clean up the problem?
Bruno: As long as the people you have up there now running
it you can't clean it up.
Ryder: Hulk Hogan went on Arsenio Hall and denied ever
using steroids. Your comments?
Bruno: What you saw there was the real Hulk Hogan. A lier
and a big abuser of drugs. This is the guy who told kids
to say your prayers and take your vitamins. Then he goes
out and injects himself with the drugs he denies ever
using. You didn't see those denials in court, though.
Ryder: So, you don't think Hogan made a very good role
model do you?
Bruno: Oh yes, a wonderful role model. I don't know if
it's true because I haven't followed it...but I hear most
places he goes people boo the heck out of him. Is that
true?
Ryder: It's true.
Bruno: Well then people have wised up. They have come to
understand just what this guy is about.
Ryder: What advise would you give to a young person
wanting to get in this business?
Bruno: I'm sorry to say, Bob...right now I wouldn't tell
anybody to get in this business. If it's a young guy, 19
or so, I guess I'd tell him to keep training hard, stay
clean, pump iron, work out on the mat, and be patient. I
don't think it will be too far down the road that who's
there won't be there in the near future.
Ryder: When Vince was building his empire in the early
80's he did it by raiding all the smaller independents and
signing their biggest stars. Now Vince is complaining that
WCW has signed away some of his talent. What do you think
about that complaint?
Bruno: Somebody told me that, and I had to laugh to
myself. Here's a guy that invaded every territory in the
country and he put them all out of business. Now, I
understand he is accusing the Turner organization of doing
the same thing he did.
Ryder: Is the problem with today's style that it stopped
being wrestling and started being too entertainment
oriented?
Bruno: Yes. There is no credibility. I remember when the
police had to escort Zybsko in and out of the building.
Same thing with Bill Watts. Today, I don't care if 10 guys
beat up one guy...on the way back people are asking them
for autographs. The people themselves tell that. I saw a
tape with Hulk Hogan talking in that fashion. Vince
McMahon has said it's make believe.
Ryder: Any last comments?
Bruno: A lot of people think I hate wrestling. I love
wrestling. It was very good for me. Throughout my career
I tried to be the best representative for the sport that I
could. I hoped and dreamed that when I left the game
things would get better. I love wrestling. I'm hurting
for what's happened to wrestling, and if and when changes
come about...if I can contribute in any way shape or form I
would get back involved in the business. I do care, I just
don't care for what has happened in the last 12 years.